And, Mr. Speaker, I move:
That the House do now proceed to the Orders of the Day.The Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
Some hon. members: No.
The Speaker: All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.
Some hon. members: Yea.
The Speaker: All those opposed will please say nay.
Some hon. members: Nay.
The Speaker: In my opinion the yeas have it.
And more than five members having risen:
The Speaker: Call in the members.
(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)
Cowling
Crawford
Culbert
DeVillers
Dhaliwal
Dion
Discepola
Duhamel
Easter
English
Finestone
Flis
Fontana
Gaffney
Gagliano
Gagnon (Bonaventure-Îles-de-la-Madeleine)
Gallaway
Goodale
Graham
Gray (Windsor West/Ouest)
Grose
Harb
Hopkins
Hubbard
Jackson
Keyes
Kilger (Stormont-Dundas)
Kirkby
Knutson
Kraft Sloan
Lastewka
Lee
Lincoln
MacAulay
MacLellan (Cape/Cap-Breton-The Sydneys)
Malhi
Maloney
Manley
Marleau
Massé
McCormick
McGuire
McKinnon
McLellan (Edmonton Northwest/Nord-Ouest)
McTeague
Minna
Mitchell
Murphy
Murray
Nault
O'Brien (London-Middlesex)
O'Reilly
Pagtakhan
Paradis
Parrish
Patry
Payne
Peric
Peters
Peterson
Pettigrew
Pickard (Essex-Kent)
Pillitteri
Reed
Regan
Richardson
Rideout
Robichaud
Robillard
Rock
Scott (Fredericton-York-Sunbury)
Serré
Shepherd
St. Denis
Steckle
Stewart (Brant)
Szabo
Telegdi
Torsney
Ur
Valeri
Vanclief
Verran
Volpe
Walker
Wappel
Wells
Whelan
Zed-115
Grubel
Guay
Guimond
Hanger
Harper (Calgary West/Ouest)
Harper (Simcoe Centre)
Hayes
Hermanson
Hill (Macleod)
Hill (Prince George-Peace River)
Jacob
Johnston
Kerpan
Lalonde
Landry
Langlois
Laurin
Lavigne (Beauharnois-Salaberry)
Lebel
Leblanc (Longueuil)
Lefebvre
Leroux (Richmond-Wolfe)
Loubier
Manning
Marchand
Martin (Esquimalt-Juan de Fuca)
Ménard
Mercier
Morrison
Nunez
Paré
Picard (Drummond)
Ramsay
Ringma
Rocheleau
Solberg
Solomon
Speaker
St-Laurent
Strahl
Taylor
Thompson
Wayne
White (Fraser Valley West/Ouest)
White (North Vancouver)
Williams-78
(1045)
[Translation]
The Deputy Speaker: I declare the motion carried.
(Motion agreed to.)
I would like a clarification regarding what happened during debate on the Reform Party's amendment to the amendment with respect to Bill C-42. As you will recall, it was during the period for questions and comments and I still had time remaining when the government whip presented a motion to extend the sitting, pursuant to Standing Order 26.
You entertained the motion, Mr. Speaker, and a number of things then happened. One was that you deemed that a motion to adjourn the House had been moved pursuant to Standing Order 38.
(1050)
You then asked if the House was ready for the question, on what it was not clear. There were cries of ``question'' from both sides and you set the vote in motion. You will recall that I hurried over to the Table and, at the first opportunity available to me, raised a point of order.
My point of order concerned the fact that the government whip's motion to extend the sitting was out of order. I will read the last paragraph only of the Speaker's ruling on this motion, in the hope that this will enlighten the Chair.
In view of the fact that the matter was a procedural motion and that it was proposed at a time contrary to the Standing Orders, the Chair is of the view that the motion is indeed out of order and has not been adopted.My question today is whether, if we step back and you have immediately declared the government's motion out of order, I would still be in the period for questions and comments. Or whether, given my brilliant answers, for no one else had any questions to ask me, you would have called for debate to resume and not gone on to the vote.
I therefore think that everything that occurred between the time the government whip's motion was ruled out of order and the time that the Chair confirmed the motion out of order was illegal. Accordingly, the vote on the Reform Party's amendment to the amendment concerning Bill C-42 is illegal and should never have been held.
I would like you, Mr. Speaker, to shed some light on this, for I believe that the custom of the House would have dictated that, following the government motion, you should have said very clearly-and this should have been recorded in Hansard, which it was not-``questions and comments'' or ``resuming debate''. You did not do so, probably through omission, or because government members were speaking very loudly and were in a hurry to vote in order to gag us.
Mr. Speaker, I ask you to rule on this question.
The Deputy Speaker: I thank the hon. member for Berthier-Montcalm. This is a very interesting point. I have reread yesterday's Hansard. On page 6813, I said: ``Is the House ready for the question?'', but the hon. member for Berthier-Montcalm, with all of his legal background, did not take that opportunity to speak.
I find this a very interesting point, but since we are both lawyers, the hon. member ought to be prepared to admit that that was when he ought to have spoken up.
The Speaker cannot be changed in mid-stream, but in this case, I believe there is nothing more to say.
Mr. Gilles Duceppe (Laurier-Sainte-Marie, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I am not a lawyer, but that does not prevent me from understanding.
Some hon. members: Hear, hear.
Mr. Duceppe: I even think these things are easier to understand when one is not a lawyer. When you asked the House if it was ready for the question, the great majority of people-and yourself, I am
sure-understood that it was on the motion of the Government Whip, which was later deemed out of order.
(1055)
Normally a debate ends with a motion. That was what the House answered yea or nay on, not the amendment to the amendment. You ought to have asked: ``Are there any questions or comments?'' If no one rises, then you ask if the House is ready to vote on the amendment to the amendment, and not on the motion of the Government Whip.
The Deputy Speaker: On the good advice of my counsel, dear colleagues, this is what I asked:
Is the House ready for the question?Some hon. members: Question.
The Deputy Speaker: The question is on the amendment to the amendment. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the amendment to the amendment?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
Again, I suggest that that would have been the time for the hon. member beside you to speak. Since he did not, I believe that, unfortunately, the matter is closed.