Barry: I was also trying to get to the idea that emotion is the poem's fact. Gary: You might want to have a look at John Berger's book And Our Faces, My Heart, Brief as Photos. Do you know that book? It's full of meditations on time and poetry as the caring language. Barry. Here's a quote from Berger: "Poetry makes language care because it renders everything intimate. There is nothing more substantial to place against the cruelty and indifference of the world as caring". Berger thinks with his heart. Gary: There is a book that Harvey Gross wrote, a book on prosody too, and he takes some of Langer's notions on the way poetry arrests time and gives us a sense of what they call "felt time". Thomas Wolfe was aware of this--time and its passage. Barry: It's amazing to have most or your conscious life thinking about poetry, or looking for it--a preoccupation that is always present. It's not a part-time business, is it? Gary: Right. A recurring disease.